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Sherron: The opinions expressed by the guests and the contributors of this podcast are
their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Cornell university or its
employees.
Sherron: Hello, thank you all for joining us today. My name is Sherron Brown and you're
listening to a brand new season of the Inclusive Excellence Podcast.
Sherron: Welcome back. Thank you for listening. As we begin, like I said, our brand new
season of the Inclusive Excellence Podcast, I'm really excited about the new
season. But before I go on, I just want to take a moment to remember my former
cohost, Cornell Woodson. He is no longer with Cornell University. He has moved
on to bigger and more exciting things for himself and we wish him well. And with
that said, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce our brand new cohost,
Anthony Sis. Anthony, please tell us about you. Who are you? What do you do?
What do you bring to the podcast? Tell us all the wonderful things that are going
to happen because now you're here.
Anthony: Thank you Sherron. I'm really excited to be here at Cornell and I'm honored to be
co-hosting this podcast with you. So as Sharon mentioned, my name is Anthony
Sis. I am the new diversity and inclusion training specialist here at Cornell.
Originally from Chicago, the best city in the world, Chicago, Illinois.
Sherron: Chi-Town.
Anthony: Chi-Town indeed. So beginning with this episode, a new episode of the Inclusive
Excellence Podcast will be posted every two weeks. So you heard that correctly,
every two weeks.
Sherron: Every two weeks. Okay, Cornell and the community, you guys can put us on the
clock. Every two weeks we're going to be dropping something.
Anthony: We're always going to be dropping something, but that also requires some input
from you all. That means double the amount of conversations and dialogues
related to diversity and inclusion. There are also going to be some new programs
and initiatives rolled out within the next few months related to diversity and
inclusion here at Cornell, which we will also be sharing here through the podcast.
Sherron: That's so exciting. I'm really ready to sink my teeth into some really good
conversations, some good guests. Some of the episodes will be just you and me.
And then some episodes we'll have guests.
Anthony: So before we begin, we thought it'd be kind of helpful to go over the new
structure, particularly starting with this new season.
Sherron: Yeah, let's do that.
Anthony: So yeah, so we'll still keep the tradition of the question of the day before we start
each and every episode. The first episode of each month will will be featuring a
segment called, What's Going On. So it'll be a conversation with me and Sherron
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and some invited guests in some episodes to really just talk about what are some
of the latest trends around diversity inclusion that are happening. And just have a
conversation about it. And we'll talk about other things that are culturally relevant
to things that are happening, diversity and inclusion related, in the workplace.
Sherron: Okay.
Anthony: And in the second episode we'll invite members of the Cornell community to
engage in a dialogue around a specific topic, which is also related to diversity
and inclusion.
Sherron: So Anthony, tell us, how you get people to be a part of our podcast episode? I
just want the community to know how they can be a part of this wonderful
conversation.
Anthony: Yeah, so that's a great question. So we recognize that there are so many
amazing individuals and people here at Cornell doing awesome work around
diversity and inclusion. And we want to be able to hear from you. If you or if you
want to recommend anyone that we should reach out to to be interviewed,
definitely send us an email at ie-academy@cornell.edu. And we'd love to hear
from you and hear from people who you think would be really fitting for us to
interview for this podcast.
Sherron: All diversity topics and inclusion topics are fair game.
Anthony: Exactly.
Sherron: Because at Cornell we are all about inclusion and belonging and diversity. So
hopefully our guests will reflect that. So, what you said earlier about having the
format stay somewhat the same, I think it's time for our question of the day.
Anthony: I'm ready, bring it.
Sherron: Okay. Question of the day. Do you mask or downplay any aspect of your
physical, cultural, spiritual self while you're at work? Let me know if you need me
to repeat that question.
Anthony: Repeat it one more time.
Sherron: Do you mask or downplay any aspect of your physical, cultural, or spiritual self
while at work?
Anthony: A little bit. So, my gender identity is gender queer, but my expression is very
masculine. And I use they, them, their pronouns. And so I think-
Sherron: You use they, them, their pronouns.
Anthony: They, them, their pronouns.
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Sherron: Singular?
Anthony: Yes. So I think part of that in terms of what I downplay in that is the gender queer
identity and how I express it, right? So my appearance, my expression, because
it's so masculine presenting, that oftentimes people assume that I may be part of
the LGBTQ community. But they may not necessarily think that I'm anything
beyond that. They may not assume I'm gender queer or use they, them, their
pronouns. And so I think that's something I definitely downplay. Haven't really
thought about why, but I think a large part of it is just for my own kind of safety.
Also just in terms of professionalism and what that is, how that is loosely defined,
right? I try to kind of conform to the norms in many ways. And not that I would
dress otherwise, but it is something that I think about a lot is my masculine
expression versus my gender queer, internal gender identity.
Sherron: Oh, that's a really good question and you did tip on something. You mentioned
something that we're going to be talking about later on in terms of what is
considered professional. But before we go there, I'm going to answer the
question as well. Something that I downplay while I'm at work. I do a lot of code-
switching. And when I'm in certain environments I behave, I speak and present
myself in certain ways. Mostly through speech than anything else. Because my
behavior is pretty consistent and it's pretty off the wall, but that's another story.
So I do a lot of code-switching with my speech. I'm Caribbean, I'm actually from
Jamaica. So I have a heavier Jamaican accent when I'm speaking with people
who are from Jamaica or I'm comfortable with. And then there are times when I
have this more street lingo. A lot of Ebonics come out in that. And I find that to be
very comfortable and soothing for me to have opportunities to let that out.
Sherron: And then there are times where I don't do that. I sound the way I do now. And
that's okay. And it's not that I'm hiding any part of me. It's one of those situations
where I feel like I have to fit in where I can and just blend in to some degree. And
I'm still myself. I'm not denying any part of myself, but I definitely downplay the
other ways of communicating with the world. So, thank you for answering that
question, I appreciate it.
Anthony: No, and you bring up a good point too. I think about just having grown up in
Chicago too, and how location and where you're born plays a huge role what you
hide and how you show up in the workplace. And so when I'm back home in
Chicago with my friends, I speak the lingo of the city, of where I grew up. I don't
have to explain people what juke means or what all these other different terms
mean. And so that's another piece I would probably add to my answer.
Sherron: All right. So you touched on saying that how you present yourself speaks to
professionalism. Why don't you go ahead and share with our listeners what we're
going to talk about today, some new and exciting things in the area of diversity
and inclusion.
Anthony: Yeah. So something that has come up in kind of some recent news and
headlines around diversity and inclusion, hair discrimination. And how employers
sometimes discriminate people based off of their hair texture or look or
appearance. And so this kind of came up, particularly with California being one of
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the states that's also passed a particular legislation. But there's also something
here similar in New York City, not necessarily the State of New York but New
York City.
Sherron: New York City.
Anthony: Yeah. So the New York City Human Rights Commission also released a
statement back in February of this year, releasing new legal enforcement
guidance, clarifying that quote, "Grooming or appearance policies that ban, limit,
or otherwise restrict natural hairstyles or hairstyles associated with black people
specifically, generally violate New York City's human rights law, anti-
discrimination policies."
Sherron: Okay.
Anthony: Yeah, so I thought that was really interesting. And then with California, Sherron, if
you want to talk a little bit about what California mentioned or talked about.
Sherron: So what California did is, their introduction to the hair discrimination in the
workplace was the development of the Crown Act. And the Crown stands for
Create a Respectful and Open Workplace for Natural Hair. And what it does, it
pretty much fosters the rules and laws and bills that are coming through and
letting organizations know, letting companies know that it's not okay to
discriminate someone based on their hair. Because hair really is an expression of
identity and culture and heritage. And it is a sense of pride for so many
individuals. And so, kudos to California.
Anthony: That'll be really interesting. Like I said, we have two different states, New York
State and California. Well, particularly in New York City enforcing these particular
stances around hair. And so when I was in Portugal. Well let me just rephrase, let
me just start back. So for me, one of the things that I always like to do when I'm
in really high, intense stress situations, is do something that I would've never
normally thought to do before. So in years past, I've done a Mohawk, like a
legitimate Mohawk.
Sherron: You're making me nervous. I was like, "What did you do?"
Anthony: No. Yeah, so I've done a legitimate Mohawk, I've done other things. And one of
the things that I had been wanting to do for many years was die my hair blonde,
like bleach it, color it, do the whole nine yards. Not just paint it blonde and then
my roots go back within a week.
Sherron: Oh, gosh.
Anthony: I wanted to do the whole thing.
Sherron: That's drastic.
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Anthony: Yeah. So one of the things when I was in Portugal, towards the end of my time
there, I was talking to a coworker about this. And she had said that one of her
friends has a salon in his basement. And so she said, "I can figure out how much
it costs. And if you're interested, I can figure things out." And I said, "Okay,
perfect." So it turns out that for the bleach, the color, and the haircut, it was only
50 euros. Which I don't know exactly how much I translates in dollars now.
Sherron: I'm sure that's not a lot of money.
Anthony: It is way cheaper than it would normally cost here in the states.
Sherron: No overhead because it's the person's basement.
Anthony: Exactly. I know people charge like two, $300. Colorists charge that amount. And
so, yeah, so it's pretty expensive.
Sherron: I don't think I've ever colored my hair.
Anthony: Really?
Sherron: My sister, when she was in beauty school back in the late '70s early '80s, she
colored my hair because she needed to practice. Beyond that, I have never
colored my hair. So I have no idea what coloring hair costs.
Anthony: Wow! Yeah, it can be pretty expensive. And so I knew that because like I said, I
had been wanting to do it for many, many years prior to going to Portugal. And so
when I was there I decided to color it, decided to do the whole thing. And it came
out a lot better than I thought, I'm not going to lie. It came out really, really great.
Like really bright blonde. It wasn't like a, what is it? That platinum blonde.
Sherron: Platinum white?
Anthony: No, it was like a true, blonde, yellowish color.
Sherron: I can't even picture you with blonde hair, but I'm sure it was great.
Anthony: Yes.
Sherron: Did you do your eyebrows and your facial hair?
Anthony: No, I didn't do all that. No, I just did my hair. But what was really interesting in
doing that was, like I said, it was near to the time I was about to leave Portugal to
come back to the US. And they had a going away party for me at a restaurant.
So I went to the going away party. I was a little bit nervous though because it was
with a lot of senior level folks at the university that I was teaching at at the time.
So I was teaching in a public university, English and American culture. And I was
there for a year. And so I was a little nervous because they hadn't seen my
blonde hair. But I said, "Okay, whatever. It's the end of my time, what are they
going to say?" Well, my supervisor comes up to me and she says, "Oh," she
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made some comment about my hair being nice and how it's really blonde. And
she's like, "Well, good thing you didn't do this earlier during your time teaching
there."
Sherron: Really?
Anthony: Yeah. So it was like a one-off comment and I kind of took that as like, "Okay, well
whatever, it's the end of my time." But it made me think a little bit about what
would've happened if I had blonde hair coming into that particular experience.
Right?
Sherron: How would my life be different if I started out blonde?
Anthony: Right. Or just like just the microaggressions and the perceptions. And so I think,
for me, and it was such an interesting social experiment. That's what I like to tell
people now. Because even when I would walk in the streets of Portugal people ...
I remember specifically one incident where somebody just stared at me and just
laughed.
Sherron: Oh!
Anthony: With my blonde hair.
Sherron: Oh my gosh.
Anthony: I was like, is that a compliment? I'm confused, you know? But obviously if
somebody is just straight up laughing at you that you don't know in the street, you
take it as a sign of like, "Oh, they're trying to humiliate you or something."
Sherron: You're different, yeah.
Anthony: You're different. And so-
Sherron: You're unusual, you're the other.
Anthony: Right. And so it just made me think a little bit about just the perceptions that we
have of people based off of hair in general. That was the first time I think I was
truly exposed to it because I have pretty straight hair. I can comb it to the side.
Very much this look, this passing look. This conversation in particular made me
think a little bit about that experience.
Sherron: Thanks for sharing that because it has me thinking about some of the decisions
I've made with my hair. And as a black woman and black culture and Caribbean
woman. Hair is such a huge part of who we are, how we get to know ourselves
as young girls coming up. And I'm sure some level of that happens for young
boys becoming men as well. I do know that I also have a lot of girls in my family,
so hair was almost always something that was an issue. Whether it is an event is
coming up and you have to get your hair done a certain way. Like I said, my
oldest sister was in beauty school. She's been a beautician now for probably over
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40 years. So hair has always been a big part of our day to day lives as well as
our overall culture. And I do remember, let's see, I've had my hair in dreadlocks
now for about 10 years. But I do know that it took me about 10 years to decide to
actually do it.
Sherron: And I remember wanting them. Very, very early in my career I was working at
another organization. I wasn't even living in Ithaca. But I knew that I didn't feel
like it was welcomed in the workplace, for me as a black woman to show up with
dreadlocks.
Anthony: Wow.
Sherron: And I'm not going to say what this organization was that I worked for, but it was
very corporate. And it's a global corporation. It wasn't like something local. And I
truly did not feel like it would be appropriate. Now, at the time I didn't have the
language to know whether or not I was experiencing microaggressions around
my hair, but all I know for sure is that I didn't feel like it was okay. I didn't feel like
it was welcomed. So at that time, well up until I think 2009 or 10 is when I started
my dreadlocks. All the way up until then, I just went with perms and acceptable
braids and weaves and things like that, to go against what my hair naturally did.
Sherron: I always say that allowing my hair to be natural is doing what God intended for it
to do. Which it's so much more liberating than fighting against it and putting
chemicals in and color and extensions and making it look like what it's not. So I
have found that for me, not showing up as my authentic self was all those years
when I was wearing a perm and putting rollers in and applying heat. And as a
man, I don't know if your experience has allowed you to get a glimpse into what a
black woman has to do to her hair on a regular basis, but it is serious business.
Anthony: It really is.
Sherron: It is. It is. But I feel so much more liberated now that I have dreadlocks. I've had
dreadlocks so long, I actually cut them. I never thought I would see that day. But
about two weeks ago, I got a haircut. And it just feels freeing. And I ask myself,
"Where did all that time go that I used to spend doing my hair?" Now I just wake
up, shake it and go and it's the best thing ever. It's the best, one of the best
decisions I've ever made.
Anthony: Sherron, so let me ask you this though. So you said it took about 10 years for
you to grow into your dreadlocks. And then what was that moment? That kind of
aha moment of like, "Oh, it's okay for me to grow out my dreadlocks." And was
there a particular moment, experience? Was it internal? Was it external? Did it
have to do with your workplace? What changed?
Sherron: I have a feeling, I think it was both internal and external. I think that as I have
grown up and owned myself as part of it also. Part of it is just coming into my
own and accepting this is who I am and these are the things that I want and this
is what I deserve. I deserve to be able to wear my hair whichever way I choose.
And also witnessing other women of color become natural, what they call natural
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hair. They're just allowing it to be what it is. And seeing all the beauty in that and
all the pride that these black women and men have in just expressing themselves
through their hair. It's a part of their culture and it's an extension of who they are.
And I just got brave because even before I did my dreadlocks, my hair was
natural.
Sherron: Natural really means without any chemical to alter the state of the hair. So of
course, you wash it, you clean it, you keep it moisturized, conditioned, just basic
care. But I don't have any chemicals in it to straighten it or to change the texture
of it. So that's when it's considered natural hair. And so I was growing my hair
naturally for years. But I still kept it under wigs just so I can continue to fit a mold.
And so after years of braiding it and wearing wigs and things like that, I just
decided to take the plunge and go ahead and get my dreadlocks done or
installed. And I think it was internal as well as external. So for me I thought, well
I'm at a certain age now, I can do it. I feel comfortable in my skin not code shifting
as much. And also, another thing also was knowing that I was living in a place
where I would be able to find resources to maintain the hairstyle, the hair in its
natural state. And that's another big deal is finding resources.
Anthony: Wow. Yeah. And you know, I wish I could speak a little bit more on that because I
feel like that's such a privilege that I have. As somebody with straight hair, who
has short hair, I just use hairspray and it literally takes me all of five minutes,
comb it to the side.
Sherron: Oh, must be nice.
Anthony: And that is it. Yeah, I don't really think too much about it. And so, yeah. So what
process was that like? What are some of the things you typically look for when
you think about location and resources for your hair and things like that?
Sherron: What I do is I scope out, I guess, a community to see how many brown people
are walking around on the streets? How many people do I see coming and
going? How many shops do I see that are catering specifically to a demographic
that I can identify with? And so when I see that, I say, "Oh, okay, there is a place
where I know I can get X, Y, Z. I can get the particular," whether it's Shea butter
for my skin or coconut oil or whatever it is, just knowing that it's there. Now
granted, it may be more expensive than if I were in Brooklyn. Everything is more
expensive than in Brooklyn, but it's okay. At least it's here. It's a step in the right
direction. And I also feel like I belong in that community, in the community that
displays opportunities for me to find resources. Whether it's a barber or a
beautician that knows how to do my hair, I feel like I belong there. I'm a part of
that. They thought about me when they developed these places and established
these businesses. That I was on their mind. So, that felt inclusive.
Anthony: That's great. Yeah. And yeah, it just reminds me too about the importance of
barbers. I didn't even think about barbers.
Sherron: Yeah, yeah.
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Anthony: So I go to a barbershop and every time I moved to a new location. So when I was
in Chicago, it took me years to find a barber. Not only a barber that did my hair
the way I liked it, but also that I felt comfortable with. And so I'm not going to lie
though, the barber I went in Chicago, I just went to him because he was a good
barber, but not necessarily the most inclusive. He would say ... So barbershops
tend to have this very hyper masculine culture, is what I like to say. In terms of
preaching about sports and talking about women and stuff like that.
Sherron: Oh, okay.
Anthony: And so it creates this, especially for me as somebody who's not part of the hetero
world, I identify as LGBTQ. And so those conversations for me always put me in
this weird spot where I'm like, "Okay, if the barber's good, I'm going to sacrifice
my comfort just to get a good haircut." Cause for me-
Sherron: Compromise.
Anthony: Yeah. Because the haircut's more important than the kind of environment that I'm
going to be in for what? 30, 45 minutes at most. Right? But when I was in Miami.
So previous to coming to Cornell, I was in Miami. And I went to this barbershop.
And two things really stood out to me. So one, it had a bar. So-
Sherron: A bar in the barbershop.
Anthony: Yeah. So it's part of ... You get one drink as part of it. So it's called the spot.
Sherron: Well, tell me the barber himself or herself is not drinking and maybe we got
something.
Anthony: No, no, no, no. They're not drinking. It's just the people who are paying to get the
service.
Sherron: Awesome.
Anthony: So it's part of, it's about the experience, right? The experience of the barbershop.
It has a little bit of the traditional element, but also this newer aspect with a bar.
You could also get coffee if you want. And what was really great about it was that
had Cuban coffee, which I love.
Sherron: Okay.
Anthony: So-
Sherron: I like the concept, but I don't want it here at this college town.
Anthony: Oh no, no, no. This is definitely not happening on my lunch break or anything.
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Sherron: No, I don't mean you. I mean having a barber shop with alcohol in a college town
with all these underaged people. That's what I'm concerned about. But you're
good. You're a responsible adult. I'm not worried about you.
Anthony: Yes, yes. So that was the first thing that stood out. But the second one was that
they also had female barbers.
Sherron: Yeah.
Anthony: And so the first time I went, I remember I went and I didn't have an appointment
with anybody, I want with a female barber. And it was so interesting because I
actually, I'm not going to lie, I kind of had some assumptions and stereotypes that
I was like-
Sherron: Do tell.
Anthony: Yeah. So my barber, she was a woman. She was really, really pretty, really
attractive. And she had long, blonde hair. Funny enough, blonde hair. I was
already assuming like, "Oh, I don't know if she's going to be that good." But in my
head I said, "Okay, I'm going to give it a try at least." But the fact that I was
already thinking about those things, literally seconds before I even got my hair
cut from her, was kind of revealing, right? About just the culture of being in a
barber shop and things like that. And how it's mostly men, not really open to
women. But nonetheless, I got my haircut from her and she did an amazing job.
Like literally the best barber I've had ever in my entire life. So much so that I still
miss her, no offense to my barber here in Ithaca. But I do miss her a lot. And we
became really close then and yeah. But barbers, in terms of finding a place that
can cut your hair the way that you want it, it can be really challenging.
Sherron: And you know, it's so funny you mentioned that you went to a white woman
barber who had long blonde hair to do your hair.
Sherron: I mentioned that I just got my hair cut about two or three weeks ago. The woman
who cut my hair is a white woman with long blonde hair, downtown Ithaca. Yes,
there is a shop here. And I had been going there for a few years. The woman
who was there before was a black woman from Africa. So I made judgements
that she knew how to do dreadlocks, and thank goodness I was right, she did.
But she has left the business and the only other person left is a white woman.
And I was really apprehensive about it. But I said to myself, "I have been coming
to this shop for many years, getting my own hair done. I always went to the black
woman to do my hair. And this white woman, she owns the business now." I'm
assuming she owns it. And I thought, "Give it a shot."
Sherron: And me and all my judgment was in her chair. And she did an amazing job. Not
only did she style the hair, she actually cut it, gave me exactly what I wanted.
And I felt completely at ease and comfortable. But I can't say that I didn't walk in
there with the judgment. So I loved that I had an opportunity to get past my own
prejudices and allow someone to do what she is trained to do in my hair. So that
was really good to know. And yeah, lesson learned. Although we talk about
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diversity inclusion all the time, we are still not above prejudices and judgments
when it comes to things like that.
Anthony: Absolutely. And we all have them.
Sherron: And we confess to them.
Anthony: So I guess to kind of wrap up this conversation, Sherron, too. What do you think
are kind of some of the things that we at Cornell should be thinking about when it
comes to assumptions around hair? And particularly here at Cornell that folks
can kind of take away from this conversation and understanding that it's part of a
larger national conversation?
Sherron: Absolutely. I know for sure that hair is such a sense of pride. And as a black
woman, before I started to wear dreadlocks, I would change my hair constantly.
Every two weeks or so I would decide if I want to braid it or take the braids out.
Or wear my hair in one braid or 700 braids, whatever. And I remember a woman I
knew, this was not a Cornell employee, this was a woman I knew. And I'd known
her for many years. And every time I changed my hair she would act like I was
magical.
Sherron: And I had to pull her aside one day and gently, of course, with love and kindness,
I had to say, "Please stop being so surprised. This is my culture. This is what we
do. And it will continue to change. If you like something, say you like it. If you
don't like it, you can say nothing. But I just felt uncomfortable every time you're
mesmerized. Like I'm in the corner doing sorcery on my hair. But in reality I'm just
living my life. And so every time you see me, you don't need to say, 'Oh my
goodness, what did you do with your hair?'" Because it didn't feel authentic after
a while. And so that's what I would want people who are not of a culture where
they change their hair all the time to just allow others to be who they are and
allow them to express themselves without creating an excitement around
something that somebody is doing every day. That's what I would want people to
know and do.
Anthony: Great. Yeah, and I would just add that I think about with hair color a lot, I've
definitely seen people here on campus with different hair colors. They may be
students, they may be staff, they may be faculty, we don't necessarily know. But
just really challenging those thoughts that you have as soon as you see
somebody. And kind of what we shared in our examples around what would
some of those initial thoughts, but then going back and being like, "Oh wait, that
may have not have anything to do with the individual." Right?
Sherron: Exactly.
Anthony: So just being mindful of those things that we have when we see other people
with different hairstyles or with different hair colors and things like that. And for
men, if it's the hair's long, we have an assumption about men with long hair and
things like that. Or with a long beard that looks a little scruffy and things like that.
So of course, depending on where you work, I think some of it has some other
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implications around safety in terms of health and things like that. But really just
challenging our own biases before we release, as you said, vocally or through
our body language to other people, what we're thinking. Which may or may not
have an alternative effect on the people that we're having those assumptions
about.
Sherron: Also, as an organization or as a company, Cornell University, we at Cornell, we
want everyone to feel like they can bring their whole selves to work. You can
express yourself in an appropriate way for the organization. So we just want,
kudos to Cornell for allowing that, allowing us to be our complete and fabulous
selves in our workplaces. And also, just reminding other organizations who may
be listening that's maybe have a little pushback about how much they will allow
their employees to be. Once you work for a company that allows you to express
yourself that way. What you're showing to the world basically is that they value
diversity not in their customers but also diversity in the people that they have as
employees. And that that goes such a long way because everybody wants to see
someone who looks like them when they're deciding who to work for. And so, I
feel very comfortable and I feel like I belong at Cornell, dreadlocks and all, I
belong at Cornell. That sense of belongingness is really real for me.
Anthony: Yeah, I definitely feel it too. As a new employee, the few months that I've been
here, I've definitely felt that appreciation and just really being able to be
authentically myself. And so, I just continue, I hope and continuing to learn from
everyone else here around what that belonging looks like for them. Because I
know that may not be the experience of everybody here at Cornell. But we also
want to be able to hear and have these difficult conversations around fostering
inclusion in the workplace and I hope we can move forward from there.
Sherron: Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you, community, for
listening to today's podcast. And if you like this episode, you can leave a
comment, you can share this episode out, send it as a link to anybody you're
interested in. And every two weeks we're going to be sharing a podcast with you.
So we're definitely going to be doing that.
Anthony: So follow us on SoundCloud to get those updates.
Sherron: Yay, SoundCloud.
Anthony: Or if you are new to SoundCloud, you can also just simply go to our website
diversity.cornell.edu as well and listen to it there as well.
Sherron: And for comments and such, you can email ie-[email protected]. That's the
email address. That's ie-[email protected]. And once again, I'm Sherron
Brown.
Anthony: I'm Anthony Sis.
Sherron: And we thank you so much for listening to the Inclusive Excellence Podcast.
Have a wonderful day.
Episode 5: What’s Going On? A Hair Affair
Released on June 3, 2019
Page 13 of 13
Sherron: So, Anthony and I would like to thank our sound engineer, Bert Odom-Reed,
from Cornell broadcast studios. Bert has been here holding us down, making us
sound like true professionals as we do our podcasting. So, thank you to you,
Bert.
Anthony: Thank you, Bert. We appreciate it.